Claim: “DNA and other creations, like our eyes, are too complex to be naturally developed.”

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Refutation Links and Multimedia:
Debater Responses:

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Common Sense, Using Ridicule and/or Requiring Proof:

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Claim: ” DNA is a code, with information, which indicates a message and a designer.”

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Refutation Links and Multimedia:  The Genetic “Information” Argument Debunked (vid)

Debater Responses:
IronChariots.org’s responses> http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=50_reasons_to_believe_in_God#Reason_1:_DNA

Common Sense, Using Ridicule and/or Requiring Proof:

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Claim: “The universe is too perfect for life to be an accident. (finely tuned by design)”

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Refutation Links and Multimedia: Fine Tuning Argument Debunked (vid)
Debater Responses:
  •  *V*-“@tzioneretz: The universe is a total mess. If stars and planets were drivers, they’d all long have had their licenses revoked. they are born and they die every day, they bump into each other, they explode, they cause cataclysmic disasters to each other… – it happens over long period of time and is not readily visible… – until an asteroid hits us one day. Anyway, is it so inconceivable that on one out of trillions of planets during billions of years atoms and molecules aligned in just the right way as to give rise to a simple life-form, which then evolved over hundreds of millions of years into various species?
  • *V*-“@Auldshamen:  The universe is too perfect for life to be an accident. (finely tuned by design)
    Let’s examine this finely tuned by design premise. The universe is so hostile to life that to think we humans got this far is amazing. If we leave this planet, we die instantly unless we take our atmosphere with us. Cosmic radiation is deadly.
    The Earth is quite hostile as well. Seventy-five percent of its surface is covered with water that we cannot drink because the salt content will kill us. If we venture into the ocean or lakes, we have to take our atmosphere there as well. Just swimming in the ocean is dangerous to us from predators. Tsunamis are a danger if we live near the coast.
    Earthquakes and volcanoes constantly threaten us. We can’t live at the poles because it’s much too cold for our frail bodies and no food grows there. That leaves about 20% of the land mass that’s accessible to us. Of that 20% there are mountains that are much too high to support our inefficient air intake system. And there are many desert areas that are much too hot for our inefficient cooling system.
    We must be very careful about the foods we eat because much of the plant life is poisonous. We must thoroughly clean our food to prevent the intake of bacteria. There are predators on the land that will kill us.
    We are constantly being threatened by viruses, bacteria and poisons.
    FINE TUNED INDEED!

Common Sense, Using Ridicule and/or Requiring Proof:

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Claim: “Complex things must have a designer and complex design is everywhere, so god exists.”

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Refutation Links and Multimedia:
(Also linked from: DNA and other creations, like our eyes, are too complex to be naturally developed.)
Debater Responses:
  • *A*-“@FreeAtheism: Complexity does not automatically equal design. Scientists have observed & explained natural processes which develop very complex systems. No magic needed.”
  • *A*-“@tzioneretz: ‘Complex’ is a normative term (i.e. can mean different things to different people).  Many things that could be deemed complex occur through transparent natural processes, without any external intervention.  In any case, if the Big Bang theory is true, then the origin of the universe was extremely simple: energy, which gradually and naturally converted into matter.  There is no need for a “god” to explain any of it.  By the way, which “god” are we talking about?
  • *A*-“Allallt–  You can assert that complexity equates to design all you like. But can you demonstrate it to be true?  Complexity comes from evolution (whether it be stellar, biological or galactic etc.) And that can be demonstrated. Stages of stellar and galactic evolution have been captured by the Hubble telescope. Biological evolution is one of the most tested and best understood scientific theories (up there with relativity and gravity).

    Take biological evolution, for example. It has certain limitations: it cannot create an irreducibly complex feature. A designer could. We don’t see an irreducibly complex feature anywhere in nature. Human designers have created more efficient versions of biological features (haemoglobin is the thing I’m thinking of). Whereas natural haemoglobin is representative of something that prior forms and… well… evolved.
    It seems desperate to interpret a Designer (let alone a perfect one) from this.”

    *V*-“FreeAtheism: Then, arguably something MORE complex would the designer need to be. So then there absolutely is a designer of your god. No?”


Common Sense, Using Ridicule and/or Requiring Proof:

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