In response to my formal challenge to theists on twitter, ms @dfizzzleee_ agreed to respond to the following:
Response by @dfizzzleee_
My Response to her submission:
Your first 2 paragraphs don’t directly address the challenge: To demonstrate that your God exist and has caused at least one event. Your first 2 paragraphs explain very well that the Bible says it’s so, but that is the Bible writers’ claims, opinions and fictions, not a demonstration with evidence. If you say “The Bible demonstrates itself true” then maybe you mean (1) eye-witness accounts? The later Gospels copied each other (adding variation) and the first was written (decades after Jesus supposedly died) mostly as a story being told via hearsay, not as an eye witness account. The bible notes many folks that saw Jesus and his miracles, but none are verifiable beyond bible claims. Or of the anonymous 500 seeing Jesus risen not one had their miraculous account recorded. No local historians or anyone else outside the bible narrative even noticed Jesus, or the eclipse or the dead rising from the graves. Or do you mean (2) prophecy was fulfilled, therefore it’s all true? Much prophecy in the bible is unverifiable as fulfilled beyond the Bible’s claim. Prophecy being fulfilled could simply be writers looking at the Old Testament promises and writing a story to fulfill them. Other prophecies were extremely vague or simple leaving the door open for any number of interpretations. Or do you mean (3) miracles in the Bible prove God is real? Water to wine, walking on water and the resurrection are unverifiable stories. Even if there was a verifiable witness to such events, they become mysteries, which are not by default answered by divinity. Or do you mean (4) historic accuracy proves the bible true? An accurate recounting of people, places and events is what makes fiction seem real. There’s no reason to believe the Bible writers didn’t just insert fictional people and events into their real background. Or do you mean (5) the bible is inerrant, proving it true? The first sentence in the bible “In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth” doesn’t match reality. In the beginning the heavens (space and time) could be argued, but the Earth wasn’t formed until another 9 billion years of stuff happening had passed. Yup the first sentence of the Bible brings into question its validity.
Per your 3rd paragraph you cite complexity of biology as evidence of God. Nature via evolution and natural forces is perfectly capable of creating complex processes and systems. If you wish to claim it’s not capable of this you need prove it’s not. Being in awe of complexity doesn’t allow for a fallacious leap to conclude your favorite myth, any myth or any unverifiable force was the cause. Even if we as humans couldn’t explain your biology examples, it becomes a mystery and mysteries don’t equal “god did it” by default. You would need to further demonstrate a link between the mystery and your yet unproven god.
I’m happy you escaped from substance abuse, no matter how you did it! Yes, finding a positive guide when you are at rock bottom can get you back up. When I was 8 my grandmother died. I imagined my stuffed animals were suffering too, and they helped me through it by talking to me and comforting me. The fact is any new thing to latch onto can be a crutch to help you continue. I dropped my crutch, you didn’t. You traversing that harsh recovery doesn’t demonstrate a god, but rather trading an old dependence for a new one. Indeed getting clean can be done in many ways, none of which demonstrates the process to be more than an effective tool.
@dfizzzleee_’s last inquiry:
I am clearly trying to have somebody prove God (or a god, or gods) in fact exists, not prove he doesn’t. I challenge whether or not my own position “I don’t believe ‘gods exist’ is a fact”. I don’t think any human knows gods do or don’t exist for sure, so by showing others they have no evidence to justify their belief, I justify my own position of not believing.
I don’t say God doesn’t exist. It just doesn’t seem like he does, since no believers have evidence to show he does. I certainly don’t and can’t hate something which isn’t there, but I do challenge the harms of religion.
** So in conclusion, you have not demonstrated that God exists or that he has been he cause of even one event. At this point your belief that god exists remains unjustified, while not believing is both the rational and justified conclusion.
Thank you for taking the challenge!