Claim: “Complex things must have a designer and complex design is everywhere, so god exists.”

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Refutation Links and Multimedia:
(Also linked from: DNA and other creations, like our eyes, are too complex to be naturally developed.)
Debater Responses:
  • *A*-“@FreeAtheism: Complexity does not automatically equal design. Scientists have observed & explained natural processes which develop very complex systems. No magic needed.”
  • *A*-“@tzioneretz: ‘Complex’ is a normative term (i.e. can mean different things to different people).  Many things that could be deemed complex occur through transparent natural processes, without any external intervention.  In any case, if the Big Bang theory is true, then the origin of the universe was extremely simple: energy, which gradually and naturally converted into matter.  There is no need for a “god” to explain any of it.  By the way, which “god” are we talking about?
  • *A*-“Allallt–  You can assert that complexity equates to design all you like. But can you demonstrate it to be true?  Complexity comes from evolution (whether it be stellar, biological or galactic etc.) And that can be demonstrated. Stages of stellar and galactic evolution have been captured by the Hubble telescope. Biological evolution is one of the most tested and best understood scientific theories (up there with relativity and gravity).

    Take biological evolution, for example. It has certain limitations: it cannot create an irreducibly complex feature. A designer could. We don’t see an irreducibly complex feature anywhere in nature. Human designers have created more efficient versions of biological features (haemoglobin is the thing I’m thinking of). Whereas natural haemoglobin is representative of something that prior forms and… well… evolved.
    It seems desperate to interpret a Designer (let alone a perfect one) from this.”

    *V*-“FreeAtheism: Then, arguably something MORE complex would the designer need to be. So then there absolutely is a designer of your god. No?”


Common Sense, Using Ridicule and/or Requiring Proof:

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